Posts
The results are in!
We now believe we have Y-DNA representation for early Van Norman (etc.) lines of New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
There is a match between two of our early New York lines.
Two sets of results match 35 out of 37 numbers, indicating that these two lines have a common ancestor, likely within a dateable period of time – although we know these lines have no connection after 1794 at a minimum. Normally, the DYS numbers on the chart in red tend to mutate or change faster than the ones in black, but in this instance, we have one of each that has changed. It is these mutations that might eventually help us determine which line a particular Van Norman ancestor might connect to, when we are trying to knock down a brick wall in our research, once we have a larger database of results to draw from. (This is assuming that the mutation took place a few generations back, and is not a recent occurrence.) At this point in time, we do not know if both mutations occurred in one line, or if they each had one, but we likely now have a good idea of the Y-DNA of an early Van Norman ancestor who settled in New York State.
You will notice that the other four sets of tests do not match this pair or each other. This indicates that we have five different ancestors represented in the results. Because we have so few results at the moment, there are several interpretations at this time.
The first possibility is that "we" descend from more than one Van Norman (etc.) ancestor, and they were not originally related. This is plausible because the very origins of the name "Van Arnhem" indicate that the original ancestor came from (or "Van") the Town of Arnhem in the Netherlands. Naturally there was likely more than one person from that town who came to North America in the earlier years who could have adopted this phrase as a surname. Varied pronounciations of other early surnames also may have led to the adaptation of the Van Norman spelling.
Another possibility is that two or more of the lines trace back to an original Van Norman (etc.) immigrant, and the other lines are the result of one of the anomalies that we talked about earlier -- Adoption, Illegitimacy, or Infidelity, etc. As additional participant's results are added to our database, we will be able to get a better idea of what situations we are dealing with.
*However,we can now state with reasonable confidence that the Smithfield, PA Van Normans are descendants of a different line than the Van Arnhem New York families of Albany, and quite possibly the early New Jersey crowd belong to a third progenitor.*
As we stated at the start of this project, the rewards are not going to come overnight, but will benefit researchers of the Van Norman surname over the long haul.
Also listed on the chart is a Haplogroup that is predicted for each participant. These are generalizations used to "track" the various routes of migration of our early ancestors after they travelled out of Africa many thousands of years ago. While the actual results can be much more detailed, depending on the line, a general rule of thumb indicates that R1b lines are from Western Europe and R1a lines are from Eastern Europe. (There are many more categories than just those two as well.) The Genographic Project is a large study currently underway using this information to determine how humankind populated the earth. For more details go to www.nationalgeographic.com and click on the icon near the bottom left hand side of the page.
*Y-DNA WISH LIST*
In order to set up a workable database for our Van Norman Y-DNA research project, we need to determine the primary line or lines. That is to say, we need to know what the defining numbers should be for the original Van Norman ancestors.
To this end, I have drawn up a minimal Van Norman Y-DNA “Wish List” to show which samples would be desirable to establish this base. Ideally, it is beneficial to obtain a sample from a male descendant of the first son of an “early” couple, and from a male descendant of the last son of the same couple. These samples should be identical, or at least virtually the same and then it is presumed that any samples from the male descendants of any other sons born between the two are also the same. Of course, in real life, it is not always possible to do this, if some of the descendants haven’t been determined yet or if a line “females out”, etc…..
The Van Norman “Clan” appear to have three early geographic locations of our surname and it’s variations - New York, New Jersey, & Pennsylvania - families which we are unable to link together at this time. In addition, we have a multitude of “brick walls” from all over, most of which can be traced back to one of the three major centers.
So, until we have determined the actual ancestral line or lines, I have drawn up four separate groupings to work with.
NEW JERSEY:
We require one more sample to confirm our other set of results, preferably from a descendant of Jacob Van Norman who married Rebecca Hann / Haun. A match would establish the line back to the 1750’s….
PENNSYLVANIA:
We require a minimum of one more sample from our Pennsylvania descendants to help sort out our puzzle.
Originally we requested at least one from a descendant of the Joseph Van Norman / Elizabeth Wybern line; one from the William Van Orman / Elizabeth line (which would potentially have given us a line for the early Isaac Van Orman of PA); and one from the Samuel Van (N)orman / (Phebe?) line of PA. (as his ancestry hasn’t been determined yet.) A match would have given us a set of results dating back to the early 1700’s.
Now a third sample should hopefully be a match to one of the samples we already possess, to give us a better idea of what situation prevented this expected match. (A new participant from each of the three above mentioned lines would be the most beneficial....)
NEW YORK:
We require a sample from at least one line that can be traced back to Jan Dirksz and his wife Sarah Theunis to confirm the Van Arnhem primary set of numbers dating to the mid 1600’s. This could include any male descendant of the Loyalist line who settled in the Eastern half of what is now Ontario, or one from the line that settled in what is now Quebec, in addition to the many other lines that are now spread across the United States. Any other Van Norman line tracing back to the early 1700’s in New York, will also be represented here.
STRAYS:
This is the category where all the ancestral “dead ends” and “brick walls” will be filed as they begin their journey, while we wait to see if their results match up with any particular line. Over the centuries, some lines may have a mutation and one of their numbers will change. If this mutation occurs far enough back in time, then anyone with the same set of numbers will be a descendant, whether or not the actual connection is known. This will assist us by giving us a direction for our research, which we might not have had otherwise.
Of course, there is always the possibility of a set of values appearing for a person that don’t match any of the others, either because adoption, infidelity or illegitimacy, etc. was involved sometime in the past.
- If you decide to participate, that is one factor you must consider.
As always, our results are posted on the Van Norman website maintained by Sherri, so you can follow our
progress. http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~vnfa
Further questions may be directed towards myself sewood@osha.igs.net or the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section at www.familytreedna.com might also prove to be useful to you.
We also welcome donations from those who wish to sponsor a line (or make a contribution towards one) if they don’t have any male Van Normans (etc.) available to them. You can contact me privately at my email address above for details. Likewise, if there are any Van Norman males who wish to participate in the project, but are unable or unwilling to spend the money to have the tests done, please contact me as well. Either of these options can be handled anonymously if you wish.
Remember, it is strictly male Van Normans who may take the Y-DNA test, as it is only passed from father to son. This is why it is ideal for a surname based endeavor. Thank you for your interest in our project.
Stephen
Sep 30, 2009
First VN Families Updated
After spending months going through the VN data collected over the past 14 years we managed to cut the number of families in half! Thanks to everyone who contributed information to make this possible.
We now have 127 "first" VN families - those that cannot be linked to parents or a larger existing VN tree. All that's left to double check are the 75-100 "strays".
The good news/bad news is that if you find your VN research interest on our first families page, we have not yet connected them to a larger tree; or if you cannot find your VN research interest on our first families page they're either within a larger tree (good news!) or we do not yet have information on them.
Check out the updated families page on our website: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~vnfa/families.html
We now have 127 "first" VN families - those that cannot be linked to parents or a larger existing VN tree. All that's left to double check are the 75-100 "strays".
The good news/bad news is that if you find your VN research interest on our first families page, we have not yet connected them to a larger tree; or if you cannot find your VN research interest on our first families page they're either within a larger tree (good news!) or we do not yet have information on them.
Check out the updated families page on our website: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~vnfa/families.html
Apr 6, 2009
First VN Families Updated
48 new "first" VN families have been added to the VNFA website. First families are those that cannot yet be connected to a larger VN tree. If you recognize any of these first VNs please get in touch!
Mar 30, 2009
The Van Norman (etc.) Y-DNA Project Results
Your family line not represented? Join in here!
We have a match!
Two sets of results match 35 out of 37 numbers, indicating that these two lines have a common ancestor, likely within a dateable period of time – although we know these lines have no connection after 1794 at a minimum. Normally, the DYS numbers on the chart in red tend to mutate or change faster than the ones in black, but in this instance, we have one of each that has changed. It is these mutations that might eventually help us determine which line a particular Van Norman ancestor might connect to, when we are trying to knock down a brick wall in our research, once we have a larger database of results to draw from. (This is assuming that the mutation took place a few generations back, and is not a recent occurrence.) At this point in time, we do not know if both mutations occurred in one line, or if they each had one, but we likely now have a good idea of the Y-DNA of the Van Norman ancestor who settled in New York State.
You will notice that the other two sets of tests do not match this pair or each other. This indicates that we have three different ancestors represented in the results. Because we have so few results at the moment, there are several interpretations at this time.
The first possibility is that there are more than one Van Norman (etc.) ancestors that we descend from, who were not originally related. This is plausible because the very origins of the name "Van Arnhem" indicate that the original ancestor came from (or "Van") the Town of Arnhem in the Netherlands. Naturally there was likely more than one person from that town who came to North America in the earlier years who could have adopted this phrase a surname. Another possibility is that one or two of the lines trace back to an original Van Norman (etc.) immigrant, and the other one or two lines are the result of one of the anomalies that we talked about earlier -- Adoption, Illegitimacy, and Infidelity, etc. As additional participant's results are added to our database, we will be able to get a better idea of what situations we are dealing with. i.e. Are the New Jersey Van Normans descendants of a different line than the New York families? Are the Pennsylvania crowd related to the New Jersey or the New York lines? - Or both? -- Or neither?? Etc., Etc. As we stated at the start of this project, the rewards are not going to come overnight, but will benefit researchers of the Van Norman surname over the long haul.
Also listed on the chart is a Haplogroup that is predicted for each participant. These are generalizations used to "track" the various routes of migration of our early ancestors after they travelled out of Africa many thousands of years ago. While the actual results can be much more detailed, depending on the line, a general rule of thumb indicates that R1b lines are from Western Europe and R1a lines are from Eastern Europe. (There are many more categories than just those two as well.) The Genographic Project is a large study currently underway using this information to determine how humankind populated the earth. For more details go to www.nationalgeographic.com and click on the icon near the bottom left hand side of the page.
Y-DNA WISH LIST
In order to set up a workable database for our Van Norman Y-DNA research project, we need to determine the
primary line or lines. That is to say, we need to know what the defining numbers should be for the original Van Norman ancestor. (or ancestors if we determine that there is more than one line involved)
To this end, I have drawn up a minimal Van Norman Y-DNA “Wish List” to show which samples would be desirable to establish this base. Ideally, it is beneficial to obtain a sample from a male descendant of the first son of an “early” couple, and from a male descendant of the last son of the same couple. These samples should be identical, or at least virtually the same and then it is presumed that any samples from the male descendants of any other sons born between the two are also the same. Of course, in real life, it is not always possible to do this, if some of the descendants haven’t been determined yet or if a line “females out”, etc…..
The Van Norman “Clan” appear to have three early geographic locations of our surname and it’s variations - New York, New Jersey, & Pennsylvania - families which we are unable to link together at this time. In addition, we have a multitude of “brick walls” from all over, most of which can be traced back to one of the three major centers.
So, until we have determined the actual ancestral line or lines, I have drawn up four separate groupings to work with.
NEW JERSEY:
We require one more sample to confirm our other set of results, preferably from a descendant of Jacob Van Norman who married Rebecca Hann / Haun. A match would establish the line back to the 1750’s….
PENNSYLVANIA:
We require a minimum of three samples from our Pennsylvania descendants. We need at least one from a descendant of the Joseph Van Norman / Elizabeth Wybern line; one from the William Van Orman / Elizabeth line (which would potentially give us a line for the early Isaac Van Orman of PA); and one from the Samuel Van (N)orman / (Phebe?) line of PA. (as his ancestry hasn’t been determined yet.) If they all match, we have a set of results dating back to the early 1700’s.
NEW YORK:
We require a sample from at least one line that can be traced back to Jan Dirksz and his wife Sarah Theunis to confirm the primary set of numbers dating to the mid 1600’s. This could include any male descendant of the Loyalist line who settled in the Eastern half of what is now Ontario, or one from the line that settled in what is now Quebec, in addition to the many other lines that are now spread across the United States. Any other Van Norman line tracing back to the early 1700’s in New York, will also be represented here.
STRAYS:
This is the category where all the ancestral “dead ends” and “brick walls” will be filed as they begin their journey, while we wait to see if their results match up with any particular line. Over the centuries, some lines may have a mutation and one of their numbers will change. If this mutation occurs far enough back in time, then anyone with the same set of numbers will be a descendant, whether or not the actual connection is known. This will assist us by giving us a direction for our research, which we might not have had otherwise.
Of course, there is always the possibility of a set of values appearing for a person that don’t match any of the others, either because adoption, infidelity or illegitimacy, etc. was involved sometime in the past. If you decide to participate, that is one factor you must consider.
As always, our results are posted on the Van Norman website maintained by Sherri, so you can follow our progress. http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~vnfa
Further questions may be directed towards myself sewood@osha.igs.net or the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section at www.familytreedna.com might also prove to be useful to you.
We also welcome donations from those who wish to sponsor a line (or make a contribution towards one) if they don’t have any male Van Normans (etc.) available to them. You can contact me privately at my email address above for details. Likewise, if there are any Van Norman males who wish to participate in the project, but are unable or unwilling to spend the money to have the tests done, please contact me as well. Either of these options can be handled anonymously if you wish.
Remember, it is strictly male Van Normans who may take the Y-DNA test, as it is only passed from father to son. This is why it is ideal for a surname based endeavor. Thank you for your interest in our project.
Stephen
We have a match!
Two sets of results match 35 out of 37 numbers, indicating that these two lines have a common ancestor, likely within a dateable period of time – although we know these lines have no connection after 1794 at a minimum. Normally, the DYS numbers on the chart in red tend to mutate or change faster than the ones in black, but in this instance, we have one of each that has changed. It is these mutations that might eventually help us determine which line a particular Van Norman ancestor might connect to, when we are trying to knock down a brick wall in our research, once we have a larger database of results to draw from. (This is assuming that the mutation took place a few generations back, and is not a recent occurrence.) At this point in time, we do not know if both mutations occurred in one line, or if they each had one, but we likely now have a good idea of the Y-DNA of the Van Norman ancestor who settled in New York State.
You will notice that the other two sets of tests do not match this pair or each other. This indicates that we have three different ancestors represented in the results. Because we have so few results at the moment, there are several interpretations at this time.
The first possibility is that there are more than one Van Norman (etc.) ancestors that we descend from, who were not originally related. This is plausible because the very origins of the name "Van Arnhem" indicate that the original ancestor came from (or "Van") the Town of Arnhem in the Netherlands. Naturally there was likely more than one person from that town who came to North America in the earlier years who could have adopted this phrase a surname. Another possibility is that one or two of the lines trace back to an original Van Norman (etc.) immigrant, and the other one or two lines are the result of one of the anomalies that we talked about earlier -- Adoption, Illegitimacy, and Infidelity, etc. As additional participant's results are added to our database, we will be able to get a better idea of what situations we are dealing with. i.e. Are the New Jersey Van Normans descendants of a different line than the New York families? Are the Pennsylvania crowd related to the New Jersey or the New York lines? - Or both? -- Or neither?? Etc., Etc. As we stated at the start of this project, the rewards are not going to come overnight, but will benefit researchers of the Van Norman surname over the long haul.
Also listed on the chart is a Haplogroup that is predicted for each participant. These are generalizations used to "track" the various routes of migration of our early ancestors after they travelled out of Africa many thousands of years ago. While the actual results can be much more detailed, depending on the line, a general rule of thumb indicates that R1b lines are from Western Europe and R1a lines are from Eastern Europe. (There are many more categories than just those two as well.) The Genographic Project is a large study currently underway using this information to determine how humankind populated the earth. For more details go to www.nationalgeographic.com and click on the icon near the bottom left hand side of the page.
Y-DNA WISH LIST
In order to set up a workable database for our Van Norman Y-DNA research project, we need to determine the
primary line or lines. That is to say, we need to know what the defining numbers should be for the original Van Norman ancestor. (or ancestors if we determine that there is more than one line involved)
To this end, I have drawn up a minimal Van Norman Y-DNA “Wish List” to show which samples would be desirable to establish this base. Ideally, it is beneficial to obtain a sample from a male descendant of the first son of an “early” couple, and from a male descendant of the last son of the same couple. These samples should be identical, or at least virtually the same and then it is presumed that any samples from the male descendants of any other sons born between the two are also the same. Of course, in real life, it is not always possible to do this, if some of the descendants haven’t been determined yet or if a line “females out”, etc…..
The Van Norman “Clan” appear to have three early geographic locations of our surname and it’s variations - New York, New Jersey, & Pennsylvania - families which we are unable to link together at this time. In addition, we have a multitude of “brick walls” from all over, most of which can be traced back to one of the three major centers.
So, until we have determined the actual ancestral line or lines, I have drawn up four separate groupings to work with.
NEW JERSEY:
We require one more sample to confirm our other set of results, preferably from a descendant of Jacob Van Norman who married Rebecca Hann / Haun. A match would establish the line back to the 1750’s….
PENNSYLVANIA:
We require a minimum of three samples from our Pennsylvania descendants. We need at least one from a descendant of the Joseph Van Norman / Elizabeth Wybern line; one from the William Van Orman / Elizabeth line (which would potentially give us a line for the early Isaac Van Orman of PA); and one from the Samuel Van (N)orman / (Phebe?) line of PA. (as his ancestry hasn’t been determined yet.) If they all match, we have a set of results dating back to the early 1700’s.
NEW YORK:
We require a sample from at least one line that can be traced back to Jan Dirksz and his wife Sarah Theunis to confirm the primary set of numbers dating to the mid 1600’s. This could include any male descendant of the Loyalist line who settled in the Eastern half of what is now Ontario, or one from the line that settled in what is now Quebec, in addition to the many other lines that are now spread across the United States. Any other Van Norman line tracing back to the early 1700’s in New York, will also be represented here.
STRAYS:
This is the category where all the ancestral “dead ends” and “brick walls” will be filed as they begin their journey, while we wait to see if their results match up with any particular line. Over the centuries, some lines may have a mutation and one of their numbers will change. If this mutation occurs far enough back in time, then anyone with the same set of numbers will be a descendant, whether or not the actual connection is known. This will assist us by giving us a direction for our research, which we might not have had otherwise.
Of course, there is always the possibility of a set of values appearing for a person that don’t match any of the others, either because adoption, infidelity or illegitimacy, etc. was involved sometime in the past. If you decide to participate, that is one factor you must consider.
As always, our results are posted on the Van Norman website maintained by Sherri, so you can follow our progress. http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~vnfa
Further questions may be directed towards myself sewood@osha.igs.net or the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section at www.familytreedna.com might also prove to be useful to you.
We also welcome donations from those who wish to sponsor a line (or make a contribution towards one) if they don’t have any male Van Normans (etc.) available to them. You can contact me privately at my email address above for details. Likewise, if there are any Van Norman males who wish to participate in the project, but are unable or unwilling to spend the money to have the tests done, please contact me as well. Either of these options can be handled anonymously if you wish.
Remember, it is strictly male Van Normans who may take the Y-DNA test, as it is only passed from father to son. This is why it is ideal for a surname based endeavor. Thank you for your interest in our project.
Stephen
Feb 21, 2009
VN Families Updated
The list of "first known" VN families has been updated. It now has 40 families that cannot (yet) be connected to a larger VN tree.
If you recognize any of these families, can link them to a larger tree, or would like to be listed as a descendant, please get in touch through the website.
Check out the updated list of families
If you recognize any of these families, can link them to a larger tree, or would like to be listed as a descendant, please get in touch through the website.
Check out the updated list of families
Feb 18, 2009
Query: Ephraim Van Orman
Is this a son of Jesse Van ORMAN & Lidia Smith?
Michigan Genealogical Death Indexing System
VANORMAN, EPHIGM
Date of death: 16-Dec-1886
Place of death: JEFFERSON
County of Death: Hillsdale
Sex: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 72 years
Cause of Death: BRIGHTS DISEASE
Birthplace: NY
Occupation: FARMING
Father's Name: J, VANORMAN
Father's Residence: MICH
Mother's Name: LYDIA, VANORMAN
Mother's Residence: MICH
Date of record: 28-Jul-1887
1860 Census (Platteville, Grant, Wisconsin) has Ephraim Vanormen age 44, Sophia age 30, Jennette age 12, Mary age 10, Emeline age 1 and Abel BERTIER age 5
1870 Census (Jefferson, Hillsdale, Michigan) has Ephraim Vanorman age 53, Sophronia age 41, Ellen age 11 and George age 9.
1880 Census (Jefferson, Hillsdale, Michigan) has Ephraim VanOrman age 64, Sophronia age 53, and George age 19.
The family cannot be found in the 1850 census. According to the birth places in the 1860 census they should be living in Michigan.
Michigan Genealogical Death Indexing System
VANORMAN, EPHIGM
Date of death: 16-Dec-1886
Place of death: JEFFERSON
County of Death: Hillsdale
Sex: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 72 years
Cause of Death: BRIGHTS DISEASE
Birthplace: NY
Occupation: FARMING
Father's Name: J, VANORMAN
Father's Residence: MICH
Mother's Name: LYDIA, VANORMAN
Mother's Residence: MICH
Date of record: 28-Jul-1887
1860 Census (Platteville, Grant, Wisconsin) has Ephraim Vanormen age 44, Sophia age 30, Jennette age 12, Mary age 10, Emeline age 1 and Abel BERTIER age 5
1870 Census (Jefferson, Hillsdale, Michigan) has Ephraim Vanorman age 53, Sophronia age 41, Ellen age 11 and George age 9.
1880 Census (Jefferson, Hillsdale, Michigan) has Ephraim VanOrman age 64, Sophronia age 53, and George age 19.
The family cannot be found in the 1850 census. According to the birth places in the 1860 census they should be living in Michigan.
Profile: Joseph & Elizabeth (Wybern) VAN NORMAN
Joseph Van Norman b. 1741 PA, d. 1824 NY. Married Elizabeth WYBERN c1761 PA. Elizabeth b. 1743 PA or NJ, d. 1813 NY.
Joseph is thought to be the son of Samuel Van NAAMEN and Sarah DELAMONTANIE but conclusive proof has not yet been found.
Joseph & Elizabeth had 11 children:
1. Ephraim b. 1762 PA, d. 1851 ON, m. Elizabeth "Betsy" MINOR
2. Isaac b. 1764 PA, d. c1850 OH, m. Elizabeth Sarah TRUSDALE
3. Daniel b. 1766 PA, d. aft1820, m. twice (wives names unknown)
4. John b. 1768 PA, d. 1831 ON, m. Sarah DEPEW
5. Susannah b. c1770 PA, m. Henry COUNTRYMAN
6. Jesse b. c1773 PA, d. 1851 OH, m. Lidia SMITH & Alletta AMERMAN
7. Sarah b. c1775 PA, d. 1823 NY, m. Thomas FLEMING
8. Benjamin b. 1775 PA, d. OH, m. Hannah
9. Aaron b. 1778 PA, d. 1862 MS, m. Lucretia Bailey House WOODWARD
10. Anna b. 1778 PA, d. bef1810 NY, m. Thaddeus MUNSON & Elijah OWEN
11. Levi b. c1787 NY
Joseph is thought to be the son of Samuel Van NAAMEN and Sarah DELAMONTANIE but conclusive proof has not yet been found.
Joseph & Elizabeth had 11 children:
1. Ephraim b. 1762 PA, d. 1851 ON, m. Elizabeth "Betsy" MINOR
2. Isaac b. 1764 PA, d. c1850 OH, m. Elizabeth Sarah TRUSDALE
3. Daniel b. 1766 PA, d. aft1820, m. twice (wives names unknown)
4. John b. 1768 PA, d. 1831 ON, m. Sarah DEPEW
5. Susannah b. c1770 PA, m. Henry COUNTRYMAN
6. Jesse b. c1773 PA, d. 1851 OH, m. Lidia SMITH & Alletta AMERMAN
7. Sarah b. c1775 PA, d. 1823 NY, m. Thomas FLEMING
8. Benjamin b. 1775 PA, d. OH, m. Hannah
9. Aaron b. 1778 PA, d. 1862 MS, m. Lucretia Bailey House WOODWARD
10. Anna b. 1778 PA, d. bef1810 NY, m. Thaddeus MUNSON & Elijah OWEN
11. Levi b. c1787 NY
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